Anyone use .22TCM

[SuperTrooper]

Is anyone shooting .22TCM? Thoughts?

 

[MisterEd]

Is anyone shooting .22TCM? Thoughts?

I am not, but I have often thought it would be a great (and economical) re-loadable round for plinking, varmint shooting etc. in a good rifle.

 

[SuperTrooper]

I am not, but I have often thought it would be a great (and economical) re-loadable round for plinking, varmint shooting etc. in a good rifle.

I'm looking at an Armscorp Rock Island Armory 9mm/.22TCM 1911 type pistol.

 

[MisterEd]

I'm looking at an Armscorp Rock Island Armory 9mm/.22TCM 1911 type pistol.

Well, I can't speak for THAT particular round however I can speak for the RIA 1911 as I own one in 9mm and I am pretty impressed with it!

I have heard however the .22 TCM is INCREDIBLY loud with a massive 'fireball' muzzle flash out of a 1911 so for me this round is a no - go.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Didn’t Armscor develop that cartridge?

 

[SuperTrooper]

Didn’t Armscor develop that cartridge?

Yes, it is the length of 38 Super but based on a shortened .223 case. That was for traditional sized 1911 pistols, but when they made a conversation kit for Glocks they had to make a shorter version to fit Glock 9mm magazine called the .22TCM-9R which is interchangeable with the standard version in Armscorp firearms, but not vice versa.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Well, I can't speak for THAT particular round however I can speak for the RIA 1911 as I own one in 9mm and I am pretty impressed with it!

I have heard however the .22 TCM is INCREDIBLY loud with a massive 'fireball' muzzle flash out of a 1911 so for me this round is a no - go.

Why are flash and bang no-gos? You should see what my 30SC carbine loads do out of the 3.1 inch barrel of my Shield Plus.

 

[MisterEd]

Why are flash and bang no-gos?

Irritating and unnecessary.

I shoot as a hobby/sport, for accuracy AND relaxation and don't need the excessive noise and muzzle flash.

You should see what my 30SC carbine loads do out of the 3.1 inch barrel of my Shield Plus.

No thanks. Does the noise and flash give you some kind of 'thrill' ?

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Irritating and unnecessary.

I shoot as a hobby/sport, for accuracy AND relaxation and don't need the excessive noise and muzzle flash.

No thanks. Does the noise and flash give you some kind of 'thrill' ?

My Python is 2 1/4 inch. With magnums the fireball is HUGE! I don’t shoot it for fun though. It’s more of a Get Off Me gun. Same with my wife’s Lady Smith 60LS.

I am going to sight that one in with 38 spcl plus P or Hornaday XTP .38 spcl. I won’t be the one needing it, my wife will. That is a 2 1/4 inch as well.

I have a six inch Taurus that I will sight in with Buffalo Bore .357 Hard Cast. In the end, it’s about having the right tool for the task at hand.

 

[MisterEd]

In the end, it’s about having the right tool for the task at hand.

Well this is true however far too many choose the improper or an EXCESSIVE tool for the 'task at hand' and this is evident in the 'gun world'.

Your 2 1/4" Python is no doubt a fantastic gun (being a Colt) however .357 mag in ANY 2 1/4" gun is pretty useless and impractical as that short of a barrel is simply not long enough for the .357 to develop its maximum energy or velocity. It will no doubt shoot .38 Specials MUCH better. Heck even a 4" barrel is on the 'edge' for .357 with a 6" being much more practical for a .357. I have a 4" Mod 66 Smith and have fired maybe ONE 'full house' .357 round out of it just to see what it was like but shoot it regularly with low end .357 reloads (which are maybe one step above .38 +P). "K" frame S&Ws shouldn't be 'routinely' fired with high velocity .357 Mag ammo anyway - especially older versions like mine.

Kind of like short barrel .44 magnum (Or heavier calibers) in handguns. I don't really know what people are thinking when they buy such a short barrel large caliber magnum handgun. Probably why so many are for sale and advertised as being fired very few times!

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Well this is true however far too many choose the improper or an EXCESSIVE tool for the 'task at hand' and this is evident in the 'gun world'.

Your 2 1/4" Python is no doubt a fantastic gun (being a Colt) however .357 mag in ANY 2 1/4" gun is pretty useless and impractical as that short of a barrel is simply not long enough for the .357 to develop its maximum energy or velocity. It will no doubt shoot .38 Specials MUCH better. Heck even a 4" barrel is on the 'edge' for .357 with a 6" being much more practical for a .357. I have a 4" Mod 66 Smith and have fired maybe ONE 'full house' .357 round out of it just to see what it was like but shoot it regularly with low end .357 reloads (which are maybe one step above .38 +P). "K" frame S&Ws shouldn't be 'routinely' fired with high velocity .357 Mag ammo anyway - especially older versions like mine.

Kind of like short barrel .44 magnum (Or heavier calibers) in handguns. I don't really know what people are thinking when they buy such a short barrel large caliber magnum handgun. Probably why so many are for sale and advertised as being fired very few times!

I use the Hornaday Critical defense .357 in that shorty Python. It didn’t over penetrate from a shorty barrel of 2.5 inches and it expanded in the gel, but you are right that for most ammo may as well be shooting a .38 special and I have some .38 plus P that I am going to try.

 

[MisterEd]

I load 158 grain plated SWC bullets with 7 grains of Unique.

Very soft shooting in my Mod 66 and very accurate!

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Well this is true however far too many choose the improper or an EXCESSIVE tool for the 'task at hand' and this is evident in the 'gun world'.

Your 2 1/4" Python is no doubt a fantastic gun (being a Colt) however .357 mag in ANY 2 1/4" gun is pretty useless and impractical as that short of a barrel is simply not long enough for the .357 to develop its maximum energy or velocity. It will no doubt shoot .38 Specials MUCH better. Heck even a 4" barrel is on the 'edge' for .357 with a 6" being much more practical for a .357. I have a 4" Mod 66 Smith and have fired maybe ONE 'full house' .357 round out of it just to see what it was like but shoot it regularly with low end .357 reloads (which are maybe one step above .38 +P). "K" frame S&Ws shouldn't be 'routinely' fired with high velocity .357 Mag ammo anyway - especially older versions like mine.

Kind of like short barrel .44 magnum (Or heavier calibers) in handguns. I don't really know what people are thinking when they buy such a short barrel large caliber magnum handgun. Probably why so many are for sale and advertised as being fired very few times!

I had a 4 inch Model 29 and I just shot Specials out of it. But my 8 3/8 inch 629 got full house 300gr hard cast magnums. And it kicked hard, even with the Hogue rubber grips covering the back strap. Loud AF and still a big fireball, though not like my shorty Python. That thing was for hunting.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

I load 158 grain plated SWC bullets with 7 grains of Unique.

Very soft shooting in my Mod 66 and very accurate!

Great info. Thanks.

 

[MisterEd]

'Medium' pistol powders (such as Unique) work better for light 'magnum' loads in longer case ammo (such as .357) than extremely 'fast' pistol powders loaded lightly.

The medium powders burn a little slower and result in 'softer' 'light' Mag loads.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

'Medium' pistol powders (such as Unique) work better for light 'magnum' loads in longer case ammo (such as .357) than extremely 'fast' pistol powders loaded lightly.

The medium powders burn a little slower and result in 'softer' 'light' Mag loads.

How does 431 rate in that respect?

 

[MisterEd]

I do not see any powder as '431' - double check the number.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Winchester, maybe it was . I used to use it for bullseye shooting in the 45.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Sorry it was 231

 

[MisterEd]

231 is close to Unique. It's only three powders 'faster' on the powder burn chart, which is not many give all the powders!

 

[SuperTrooper]

Irritating and unnecessary.

I shoot as a hobby/sport, for accuracy AND relaxation and don't need the excessive noise and muzzle flash.

No thanks. Does the noise and flash give you some kind of 'thrill' ?

Nope, just the cost of admission - I'm already quite deaf from shooting pistols all my life, and I use hearing protection. Many that I have has a compensator, or muzzle brake - a big ball of flame is just what there is. I also shoot for relaxation, I'm just about out the door to go burn up 800 rounds or so, and I guess the flash bang is something as I don't find shooting a nearly silent pellet pistol satisfying at all.

Um, I carried a 2-1/2" revolver in .44spec usually hand loaded to +P+ for 4 decades (I only traded it last August) and fired thousands of rounds through it. ALWAYS a pleasant shooter. Of course that may be why I'm deaf...

 

[MisterEd]

as I don't find shooting a nearly silent pellet pistol satisfying at all.

Well, even mildly loaded .45 ACP, 9mm or .357 Mag doesn't equate to the level of 'silent pellet pistol'.

I simply prefer a 'softer shooting' firearm as opposed to what I have seen with some who are shooting mega - magnums and are wincing, jerking and obviously anticipating the report and recoil.

For ME this is not what I consider to be relaxing or pleasant.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Hey @SuperTrooper Grabagun has your 30SC S&W for $249 today, if you need another for a backup.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Hey @SuperTrooper Grabagun has your 30SC S&W for $249 today, if you need another for a backup.

That's about what the EZ has sold for, and the Shield Plus at $269. Grabagun has been pushing them for quite a while. The first EZ was $229. I appreciate the heads-up. The 9mm or 380 version of either of these is at least $100 more, but the 30sc is a fine cartridge. They're trying to sell enough to build a market. The PD10 just dropped a 30sc conversion, and of course Nighthawk if you want to spend decent car money.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Well, even mildly loaded .45 ACP, 9mm or .357 Mag doesn't equate to the level of 'silent pellet pistol'.

I simply prefer a 'softer shooting' firearm as opposed to what I have seen with some who are shooting mega - magnums and are wincing, jerking and obviously anticipating the report and recoil.

For ME this is not what I consider to be relaxing or pleasant.

Despite the sharp report, the 30sc is a very mild shooter. I hear the same about the 22TCM, it is loud, but a mild shooter. The EZ in 30sc pushes a 115gr 50 fps faster than the 115gr in 9mm (both cci blazer factory loads) but recoils more like a 380.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

That's about what the EZ has sold for, and the Shield Plus at $269. Grabagun has been pushing them for quite a while. The first EZ was $229. I appreciate the heads-up. The 9mm or 380 version of either of these is at least $100 more, but the 30sc is a fine cartridge. They're trying to sell enough to build a market. The PD10 just dropped a 30sc conversion, and of course Nighthawk if you want to spend decent car money.

I might buy one if they are still around at that price at the end of the month if O don’t wind up with my buddy’s Ruger that he has listed on GB.

 

[MisterEd]

Initially I liked the idea of the .30 SC BUT why do they call it .30 when it uses .312 caliber bullets?

I might have considered a gun in it IF it WAS in fact .30 caliber. Heck then I could have used 110 grain Carbine bullets to reload it with OR any one of a number of other .308 caliber bullets..

My point being there are a lot more actual .308 caliber bullets available than .312 and this would benefit reloaders but being Federal Cartridge developed it they probably did this to discourage reloading so people would buy their ammo.

Unfortunately it appears this caliber is 'dying on the vine' and ammo production being reduced as well.

 

[SuperTrooper]

I might buy one if they are still around at that price at the end of the month if O don’t wind up with my buddy’s Ruger that he has listed on GB.

I've been tickled with 30sc except for leaving a mark you can feel on my AR500 steel targets at less than 35yds.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Initially I liked the idea of the .30 SC BUT why do they call it .30 when it uses .312 caliber bullets?

I might have considered a gun in it IF it WAS in fact .30 caliber. Heck then I could have used 110 grain Carbine bullets to reload it with OR any one of a number of other .308 caliber bullets..

My point being there are a lot more actual .308 caliber bullets available than .312 and this would benefit reloaders but being Federal Cartridge developed it they probably did this to discourage reloading so people would buy their ammo.

.38 special - .357
.44 special - .429
.44 mag - .429

It's tradition (?)

 

[MisterEd]

It's tradition (?)

I understand this but .357/.38 & .44 mag & Special are ESTABLISHED calibers and have been popular with reloaders since their inception with plenty of bullets available.

The .30 SC is relatively new and doesn't have the popularity of those and it would have helped to have made it in .308 caliber, however being it's in .312 is probably a detractor.

ANY company developing a new caliber these days is taking a BIG chance due to the already large number of established rounds there already are.