9mm vs .45 ACP will never end

[BenJ]

I shoot 9mm and most of my buddies swear by .45. We've had this argument a hundred times and to be honest, neither of us will change

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Use the right caliber with the right platform for the job. That will depend upon the circumstances. If we get a mag ban next month I will be carrying 1911’s in 45ACP, my Python in .357 magnum, or my 40 cal pistols that hold ten in the flush mag.

If the state is going to neuter my capacity, I am upping the power and/or the size of the hole. You ought to see what federal HST does in hell. That stuff expands to approx .70

As far as two legged critters in town, any of the guns I mentioned would be good. And my Python would be good for hitting the trails with the right ammo.

 

[MisterEd]

We've had this argument a hundred times and to be honest, neither of us will change

It shouldn't be an argument. A fun 'debate' but nothing to argue about.

I am certainly a 'fan' of 1911s and all of them I HAVE had were in .45 - until I bought an RIA FS in 9mm last year and love it!

Obviously some calibers are better than others (depending on the 'target') but I don't even 'engage' when people get on their 'soap box' about the .45 ACP - especially those who are adamant about how it's not a 'real' 1911 unless it IS in .45.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

It shouldn't be an argument. A fun 'debate' but nothing to argue about.

I am certainly a 'fan' of 1911s and all of them I HAVE had were in .45 - until I bought an RIA FS in 9mm last year and love it!

Obviously some calibers are better than others (depending on the 'target') but I don't even 'engage' when people get on their 'soap box' about the .45 ACP - especially those who are adamant about how it's not a 'real' 1911 unless it IS in .45.

I wouldn’t want to get hit by any of them.

 

[MisterEd]

I wouldn’t want to get hit by any of them.

That goes without saying!

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

I am looking at a Colt Commander in 38 super. If it is still there when I have the money, I will get it.

Same capacity as the 9mm.

 

[MisterEd]

The .38 Super certainly has energy and velocity advantages over both .45 and 9mm however I believe for one to get the most out of it reloading is almost going to be a necessity.

I don't know what the availability of .38 Super ammo is but I suspect it's probably not nearly that of 9mm and most likely a lot more expensive, and reloading will not only save money but with the variety of bullets & powders available will give one the best out of it!

 

[SuperTrooper]

I carry 2-.380ACP pistols, and one in .30 super carry. 9mm for the range. Not much difference, they'll all kill you with 30 super carry having the most penetration, and equivalent energy to 9mm. Never cared for .45acp, but I did carry a .44 special for nearly 50 years.

 

[MisterEd]

I am looking at a Colt Commander in 38 super.

I ALMOST became an owner of a Colt Lightweight Commander in .38 Super many years ago. I was in a pawn shop and a guy was trying to sell one but it was kinda beat up and they were only offering him a $100 for it if I remember.

Well, he declined and I followed him outside and asked to look at it. Unfortunately it was pretty beat up and looked like it had been rolling around in a box of tools but was tight and didn't appear to have been fired much. I offered him $250 but he declined as well and said he would just hang onto it.

Kind of a bummer as I was thinking a .38 Super would be interesting to load for and shoot but such is life!

 

[SuperTrooper]

I suppose if you're talking 1911s then I'd go with 38 super, but being a SIG man I'd be looking at 357 SIG being a much more modern rimless case vs the semi rimmed 38 Super. 357 SIG uses 10mm mags, but 38 Super needs a specialized magazine due to the semi rimmed case. I've even seen my 30 Super Carry in big sporting stores, and I even see 357 SIG at times, but running across 38 Super isn't something I recall recently. 357 SIG cases can be made from 10mm, but I'm pretty sure 38 Super can only start with 38 Super cases as with my 30 SC... But at least 30SC is usually just a few cents per round more than 9mm so I can stock up. I DID see a bunch of 38 Super in Mexico however, for the same reason I chose 30 Super Carry - not a military round which are forbidden in Mexico.

 

[MisterEd]

but I'm pretty sure 38 Super can only start with 38 Super cases

Well, 'technically' .38 Super CAN be loaded with .38 Auto (ACP) cases (as they are the same size) but this presents a problem IF Super data was used in AUTO loaded cases and they were to be lost, sold, given away etc and someone were to shoot them IN a .38 Auto (ACP).

Same as if someone used .30-30 brass to load .32 Special ammo or anyone one of the MANY similar case/cartridge combos that can be used for similar guns - but vastly different charges.

Heck, several years ago I was given a bunch of old reloading doo dads, ammo, brass etc. and there was some .'30-30' brass with bullets that didn't look 'right'.

Well, a quick check with calipers revealed the bullets to be .312 caliber! Someone had used .30-30 brass to reload .32 special.

This is why reloads of UNKNOWN origin should NEVER be used unless you know the origin of them and trust them. I have on several occasions been asked by friends & others when out shooting if I had any extra ammo they could 'borrow' and I ALWAYS tell them they are MY reloads and free to use them if they choose. Fortunately most of my friends and acquaintances see me as a pretty safe, exacting and 'by the book' kinda guy so they NEVER questioned them!

 

[SuperTrooper]

I gotta call BS on loading 38 super in 380 acp cases. Well not BS, but rather you are incorrect.

 

[MisterEd]

I gotta call BS on loading 38 super in 380 acp cases.

I DID NOT SAY .38 Super could be loaded in .380 ACP cases - I SAID .38 Auto (ACP) - BIG DIFFERENCE. Re - Read my post.

Are you unaware of the .38 AUTO round?

The .38 Auto (also known as .38 ACP ) was introduced in by Colt in 1900 for the Colt M1900 pistol. Designed by John Browning, this semi-rimmed cartridge was initially intended for military use and represents one of the earliest successful semi-automatic pistol cartridges.

 

[SuperTrooper]

My bad, the difference between 38 ACP, and 38 Super (38 ACP +P) is more in the pistol and are physically identical. Are you saying that because of the pressure differential that the cases are not identical? I can't recall the last time I saw 38acp for sale however being more of a C&R kinda thing. I would think that it's the other way around with 38 super cases loaded down to 38acp pressures being more likely than vice versa.

 

[MisterEd]

Are you saying that because of the pressure differential that the cases are not identical?

No I am NOT saying the cases are NOT IDENTICAL. I said they were the same. Here is a paste of what I said:

Well, 'technically' .38 Super CAN be loaded with .38 Auto (ACP) cases (as they are the same size)

AND the .38 Super is NOT simply a +P version of the .38 Auto. It is loaded to nearly TWICE the pressure of the .38 AUTO and that is why it is called the .38 SUPER.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Just like 32 French Long will chamber in 30 super carry, the likelihood is more that the person with the obscure French Long will load a 30 super carry case down to 32 French Long pressures vs someone taking a rare obscure very difficult to find 32 French Long case and load it to 30 super carry pressures, although I believe it would have no ill effect on the 30 Super Carry chambered firearm, but quite dangerous to try to fire the 30 Super Carry round out of your antique 32 French Long. But I hear you...

 

[MisterEd]

Kind of like when Winchester created the .375 Winchester.

They lengthened the case so it COULD NOT be fired in .38-55 rifles.

.38-55 CAN be fired in a .375 but not the reverse.

 

[SuperTrooper]

And no, I wasn't quoting you, and no I wasn't implying that the 38 Super was developed as a +p for 38acp pistols, but rather it is by definition a +p given the nearly identical dimensions. I still say that the likelihood of coming across 38acp stamped 38 Super loaded rounds is nearly zero. That being said I never trust any reload that I did at lest supervise, or load myself.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Yeah, and Elmer Keith loaded 44 Special into 44 Magnum but the lengthen the case so you can't fire 44 Magnum out of 44 special, but you can load 44 special into 44 Magnum. Same with 38 special and 357 Magnum, but I'm sure you and everyone else knows.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Fun fact, my dad was a friend of 'uncle' Elmer Keith, and that is the reason my EDC was a 44 special for nearly 50 years. A really nice guy, and a hell of a shot.

 

[MisterEd]

Unfortunately there have been SOME cases (rare) of .357 Mag ammo being able to chamber in older .38 Special pistols (saw one once that would) AND there were cases of some who had reamed out the cylinders on mod 15 & 14 S & W pistols to accept .357 Mag ammo as at the time it was 'surmised' the Mod 15s & 14's were structurally the same AS mod 19s (and 13s & 66's) other than cylinder length.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Unfortunately there have been SOME cases (rare) of .357 Mag being able to chamber in older .38 Special pistols (saw one once that would) AND there were cases of some who had reamed out the cylinders on mod 15 & 14 S & W pistols to accept .357 Mag ammo as at the time it was 'surmised' the Mod 15s & 14's were structurally the same AS mod 19s (and 13s & 66's) other than cylinder length.

Oh yeah, I've seen people load 38 special to hot 357 Magnum pressures too with quite spectacular results from a cheap 'Saturday Night Special' S&W small frame clone. We called him stumpy

 

[SuperTrooper]

Oh wow, Ammoseek actually has a solitary listing for .38acp (who knew?), no listing for 32 French Long (not surprised), and 7 pages of .38 Super. I still think I'd go .357 SIG, but then I'm not a 1911 guy... Although I have been looking at some of the amazing Turkish offerings of late, I might take the plunge in 9mm/. 22TCM

 

[MisterEd]

Well, I AM a 1911 guy (not a full on Rah Rah flag waiver) but owned more than a few and appreciate the history AND the essential design of the 1911.

They are HARDLY outdated as many like to espouse and if one has the ability to strip one down completely and has ANY mechanical expertise they would SEE they are HARDLY outdated, AND relatively simple FOR THE DESIGN and incredibly safe given the basic three safety mechanisms that were designed into them (four if you take into account the Series 80 with it's firing pin block)

But I don't get into any 'debates' with those who don't understand (or have any experience) with the 1911 because it simply ain't worth it.

I am a 'traditionalist' and appreciate 'older' and 'classic' designs with guns.

I would highly recommend IF you are considering a 1911 go with a 9mm and RIA.

RIA has a plant and offices in Ceder City, UT, and Parump, NV and have great customer service. And they are a bit 'less expensive' than the Turkish models.

 

[Rimfire Fanatic]

Well, if that Combat commander in 38 Super works out it will be $699 after rebate. Less money than My Kimber Eclipse Pro 4 inch that I basically stole for less than $950 out the door. And, I think Mazamas still has them on their site.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Well, I AM a 1911 guy (not a full on Rah Rah flag waiver) but owned more than a few and appreciate the history AND the essential design of the 1911.

They are HARDLY outdated as many like to espouse and if one has the ability to strip one down completely and has ANY mechanical expertise they would SEE they are HARDLY outdated, AND relatively simple FOR THE DESIGN and incredibly safe given the basic three safety mechanisms that were designed into them (four if you take into account the Series 80 with it's firing pin block)

But I don't get into any 'debates' with those who don't understand (or have any experience) with the 1911 because it simply ain't worth it.

I am a 'traditionalist' and appreciate 'older' and 'classic' designs with guns.

I would highly recommend IF you are considering a 1911 go with a 9mm and RIA.

RIA has a plant and offices in Ceder City, UT, and Parump, NV and have great customer service. And they are a bit 'less expensive' than the Turkish models.

I am looking at RIA, and I guess I'm behind because I thought they were made in Turkey. I am familiar with the 1911 as I had one (Colt 1911A1) in my hand when I invaded Grenada. I think my dislike was more with the .45acp round.

 

[MisterEd]

when I invaded Grenada.

When YOU invaded Grenada?

You mean as part of 'Operation Urgent Fury' or were you on your own?

And yes. RIA guns are made by Armscor in the Philippians and have been since 1952 and are very high quality.

Were you unfamiliar with RIA previously ?

 

[SuperTrooper]

When YOU invaded Grenada?

You mean as part of 'Operation Urgent Fury' or were you on your own?

And yes. RIA guns are made by Armscor in the Philippians and have been since 1952 and are very high quality.

Were you unfamiliar with RIA previously ?

22MEU - Simper Fi